Why Most Portfolios Are Still Wrong on Gold | Jeff Weniger

Jeff Weniger, Head of Equity Strategy at WisdomTree, joins Kitco News Anchor Jeremy Szafron to break down the extreme volatility in the precious metals market and explain why holding zero percent in gold is a massive portfolio risk. Weniger analyzes the lagged effect of Federal Reserve policy, noting that "Jay Powell gave a gift to precious metals" 19 months ago, and explains why that liquidity is still fueling risk assets today.

The discussion covers the 78 percent surge in Chinese silver imports, the resilience of the consumer against $106 oil, and why the recent breakout in copper signals global economic expansion. Weniger also addresses the safe haven debate, pointing out how "Bitcoin decided to die on the vine during the two s and p selloffs" while physical gold proved its worth as a true portfolio diversifier.

Recorded April 24 2026

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00:00 Metals Volatility Setup
01:08 Silver Swings China Demand
03:08 West vs East Metals Mindset
03:48 Bitcoin vs Gold Diversifier
05:09 ETF Flows Still Zero
06:53 Fed Cuts Lagged Liquidity
10:04 Yields Inflation Policy Path
14:27 Gold Share Portfolio Risk
17:48 Where Allocation Comes From
19:52 Oil Shock Without Recession
26:00 Dr Copper Expansion Signal
26:41 Why Zero Metals Is Mistake
29:58 Closing Thanks Subscribe

#Gold #Silver #PreciousMetals #KitcoNews #Investing #Economy #FederalReserve #Bitcoin #Commodities #Macroeconomics #WealthManagement
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The videos are not intended to provide trading advice, and the views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of Kitco Metals Inc. Kitco News, its anchors, producers, and reporters are not responsible in any way for the performance or actions of any sponsor, advertiser or affiliate of Kitco News. In no event will Kitco and its employees be held liable for any indirect, special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of the use of the content in this video.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Kitco News in Focus with Jeremy Saffron.

SPEAKER_03 0:03

Welcome back. I'm Jeremy Saffron. Precious metals have spent the last 30 days violently repricing after we saw that parabolic run above $5,300 in March. Gold now consolidating near $4,700 on the spot side. Silver also exhibiting high beta behavior, pulling back to that $676 level. But again, both metals still up year to date. This is a market caught and a massive cross-current between rising geopolitical risk premiums and a decidingly hawkish repricing of the Fed curve. The question for investors is whether this is time to kind of press that reset button or a warning that portfolios are not positioned for this kind of volatility. Our guest today is challenging how institutional models these assets essentially. Jeff Winniger is the head of equity strategy at Wisdom Tree, and his team argues that zero allocation to physical metals is no longer a neutral position, pointing to data that places gold at nearly 13% of the global investable market. So we got a ways to go. Jeff, welcome to the desk. Nice to see you.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

I want to jump right into silver here. We got a couple of jitters as un X before. People are saying, what's happening? I mean, it's you know, it was up around 80, it's sitting at 76. Either way, we're seeing those intraday swings that we're not used to seeing. Yet the physical data that we're seeing from the desk this morning shows Chinese silver imports surged 78% last month. I mean, what's the market missing here?

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Well, look, I mean, you know what, maybe we got a little bit spoiled. I mean, yeah, you know, I'm starting to get to that point in my career where I'm old enough to remember when you could go on eBay a quarter century ago, it was $4 an ounce. And now here we retrace the silver price over a couple of months, and it's like, you know, it's surprise, surprise, it's it's shock and awe that it's down a little bit. Um, the reality is that if you ask the typical investor, and I think that we are pretty good gauge of that at Wisdom Tree, because what we do for a living is talk to financial advisors, um, generally they don't own any silver, they still don't own any gold. Um, you know, when you're thinking about you know whether or not there's uh upside retail demand uh from the Chinese, I think that there is this continuation of a concept where maybe I need to rethink what I would be allocating to um in that specific country. I mean, the Chinese uh specifically used to have a concept of just perpetual property ownership as the path to riches. And that kind of went out the window in every bit of the last five years or so, Jeremy. And so I think that a lot of the dynamics that would propel silver or gold higher are just a lot of people reassessing portfolios or prior convections.

SPEAKER_03 2:51

And I mean, you know, if if China's kind of buying physical silver while the Western markets are trading it like a risk asset, who's reading the market correctly? I mean, it did get a little frothy there. I mean, everybody was kind of in the trade. Uh we've seen it consolidate, but I mean, you know, it still feels like an East versus West story.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Well, I, you know, it's it's tough to tell. I mean, look, I I know Western civilization best, right? Uh, I am a Westerner. And one of the things that I've noticed through the years is you're you're having a conversation with financial advisors or you're discussing uh gold in a portfolio or silver in a portfolio. You make a passing reference to 90% bags of junk, you know, that type of thing. And so what are you talking about? A bag of junk? Like, junk silver, what is it like people don't even know what that is. I mean, we're here on Kitka, we we know what that is. Um, but people don't typically own these types of things. They don't have old Engelhard bars that were that were you know melted in 79. They don't have that. Um, I think that one of the key concepts that was disruptive to getting gold and silver off the tarmac in recent years before they got running was there was to the extent that somebody decided to go alternative, they went over to Bitcoin. Yeah, and I think the last few years people started to say, you know what, what's going on with this gold stuff? You know, maybe I need to take a look because I'm 20, 25, 30 years old. My instinct back in, let's say, 1979, 1980, might have been to go to Krugerands. And now maybe my instinct in 2015 or 2020 is to go into Bitcoin. And I think that if you take a look at the action last year in 25, Bitcoin didn't do so well when the SP was selling off. And the reality is, is most people have a big portfolio of stocks and bonds, and then precious metals or crypto is the the other thing. And the reality is, is one of those two other things didn't diversify very well in 25. Bitcoin decided to die on the vine during the two SP sell-offs, and gold was shining. And so I think that that's part of the reason people will be coming into gold.

SPEAKER_03 5:01

Yeah. I was gonna ask you, I mean, because you brought up a good point there. I mean, you're talking to investors all day. I mean, what are they actually doing right now? Are they are they adding gold and silver here or are they still sitting on the sidelines?

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Well, I mean, look, I I know the ETF business, the ETP business, exchange traded products. Uh, I know it well. I've been in it for years. I've been at Wisdom Tree for nine years. And one of the things we used to lament last year, you know, Microsoft Teams, you're typing to your to your cult colleagues, is wow, there weren't a lot of creations going on in our products or the competitor products on the gold mining or or gold bullion itself, despite the fact that we were melting up in all this stuff. It was the talk of the town. And you still have, when you look at the big flows, I mean, it mostly goes into the SP 500 tracker funds. And typically, I mean, if you think about the business model, you get uh your hands on the financial advisors' uh portfolios, whether it's an RIA or a broker dealer advisor, and you take a look at it, you say, oh, oh, here's another one with 0% gold. Here's another one with 0% gold miners. And it's kind of shocking, actually, Jeremy, because if you think about um the typical financial advisor in this country, this is a person who's 50 or 55 years old. You would think that they would at least have been in their earlier stages of their career working with people who were around in the 70s uh when it was all oil, gold, and silver. But we see we see this type of thing all the time. Like, nope, nope, still, you know, ran up to $5,000, still don't have any. And so that's one of the things. I mean, we're not at $5,000 anymore, we're at like 4,700, but that's one of the things you really scratch your head and you say, well, from an investable asset perspective, why are you still zero? Um, right. And that's the bull case, really. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

I want to, you know, we're gonna talk about the allocations because you got an interesting kind of thesis there. And and I wanted to look at the the macro picture because that thesis kind of suggests that the market is ignoring the the lagged effect of the easing we saw in 2024, 2025. But you know, the reality of the curve today is that the markets are pricing out any rate cuts for 2026. Why why should investors still care about the liquidity of the past when the current cost of capital seems to be you know kind of rising? Or or is the market simply telling us, I guess whatever easing we had is already behind us?

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Yeah. And and I don't know whether it is, Jeremy, is it our goldfish attention spans? It it might be. I mean, if you think about right now, late April 2026, what we are talking about when it comes to monetary policy. It's is Jay Powell gonna be out of there and now it's gonna be Kevin Walsh, and it is Warsh gonna give us one cut or one hike or what have you? And when's that gonna come? That's the conversation. What the hell are we doing here? I mean, I'm sorry, but uh what I should be concerned about, or maybe opposite of concern when you think about past tense, is what has the Fed done past tense as it pertains to liquidity conditions right now? And last time I checked, Jay Powell was cutting rates in the initial slashes of the back end of 2024. This goes back 19 months ago, and then we paused, and then Jay Powell gave it to us again in the fourth quarter of 25. And if you look at these historic rate cycles, whether you're thinking about the implications for, oh heck, Jeremy, I mean, we're doing this macro stuff all day long, initial jobless claims, marginal propensity to lend in the banking system, S P 500 earnings, there's a correlation between all these things. A 19-month uh starting point past tense on Fed rate cuts is something that is immensely bullish for risk assets. This is the period in time, whether or not it is you deciding you need to remodel your bathroom and you take out a home equity line, which is a floating rate piece of paper, and you do that because the Fed cut a year and a half ago and into today, right? Because you used to have short money was five and a quarter to $550. That was the Fed funds rate. Now you're in the upper threes. You're gonna be more likely to remodel the bathroom. You're also gonna be more likely to take on a small business loan, and you're also gonna be more likely, as it as it as it goes in this conversation, to say, okay, my opportunity cost here in the money market is X. Well, X used to be five and a quarter to $550 to go over to PNC or Bank of America. Well, maybe not at those institutions, but your local savings alone, right? Overnight money, a five-handle. Now overnight money is a three-handle. And you're saying, well, okay, safe deposit box with some with some Krugerands or some maple leaves in there, it's it's on net positive. This is what we've always known with respect to precious metals. It's an opportunity cost relative to what I can get in these other assets. And Jay Powell gave a gift to precious metals and he gave it to us 19 months ago.

SPEAKER_03 10:06

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, you know, it if nominal yields stay elevated and inflation proves to be a little sticky. Some of the things that we're seeing, I mean, does that hawkish Fed repricing put uh a hard ceiling on non-yielding assets like gold?

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Well, look, I mean, you know, when we start thinking about yields, are we talking about overnight yields? Are we talking about the long bond, for example? Now, if you if you look at the bond market, something that the gold market or the silver market would hate would be an erratic tape. Uh, waking up in any given morning and the 10-year treasury note is 20 basis points higher or 20 basis points lower than it was in the prior session. And that'll that applies to any asset class, right? If you and I were in building construction, we wouldn't want to see that because we don't know whether or not we should be signing with our lenders today or waiting until next month because there's so much vol on the on the bond side. Totally. But if you look, I mean, heck, Jeremy, I think maybe like last year or so, I'm just eyeballing the chart in my head. And we were at 395 on a 10-year T-note, what, one or two months ago? The highest I can recall in the last year on a 10-year T-note, something like 450. Now, these are higher levels than when we were, you know, down at 0.60 on a 10-year during COVID. But whatever the case may be, if we if we back the envelope this and call it 395 to 450, that's a nice little tight trading range where I could say, okay, it's a portfolio stability situation that I would have some higher degree of confidence than perhaps I had in a prior year, that maybe I wake up a month from now or three months from now, and my best guess is oh, somewhere between 395 and 450 on that on that T-note. Now the question is whether or not, this is the other part of what you're talking about, inflation ends up surprising to the upside. Now, this is where I think um inflation expectations, but some of it's already baked in, right? I mean, we saw PPIs, producer price index gauges pop in March. That's no surprise. We saw a lot of CPIs continue higher in March. Um now we have to wait for some of the April data uh to see how that goes. But I would point out that is it inflation or is it really what ends up happening to monetary policy as a function of that inflation that will influence metals prices? Um and the whole thing was oh, we have this exogenous shock out of the Strait of Hormuz, and that therefore, let's go with Kevin Walsh. Kevin Walsh will have to hike rates in reaction to that. Well, first off, you can't control with monetary policy an exogenous shock. It's out of your hands. You're just at the Equilies building, right? So how do you gauge that? It's not that there was massive lending by the sock gens of the world or the B of A's, and suddenly that you ran the credit spigot too hot. So you have this exogenous shock, and then the other part about it is I was told that Kevin Wars is in there to cut rates because that's what Trump wants. Yeah. And so why would he hike rates? And and so that doesn't make any sense to me. And so now you have a situation where, all right, we keep this, we keep monetary policy here in the mid-threes. We now have a situation where money supply, which is you know, like we're doing 99% talking straight-of-hormoes and 1% talking money supply. That's essentially what we're doing right now, and money supply growth as it pertains to time zero, it is tapping and not bullish for the metals complex, but it's rising off of a base. So we have we were doing this the other day. We were doing um a combination of Japan, the Eurozone, and the United States on M2 money supply on a year-ver-year basis, and we have it at plus 3.5%. And during COVID, it's in the it's in the teens. So, you know, I don't know that we're gonna be sitting here looking at a high single-digit CPI, but it is starting to go a little bit higher, back towards medians, and that generally speaking is horrible news for whether or not you know your ability to purchase a loaf of bread or a box of Cheerios. Um, but it is pretty good news for your copper, your zinc, your SP 500, and so on.

SPEAKER_03 14:29

That's a good point. Um, and we should probably talk about the mandate too. I mean, I'm gonna scrutinize your portfolio data just for a second because what is it? Wisdom tree calculates gold at 12.7 percent of the global investable asset base. Now, if if that number's even directionally correct, I mean, most portfolios are structurally underweight, as you as you can imagine. Yeah, running a 12% allocation to physical metal kind of introduces massive tracking error for institutional managers. You know, I mean, is this 12.7% figure like can it happen? Is that a deployable mandate that institutions should actually execute?

SPEAKER_00 15:07

You're asking the most the most difficult question. Um, the the ability of you as institution A to deviate meaningfully from what institution B, C, and D are doing. Um, this, I mean, take it take it from this uh this analogy around the corner. We'll do a roundabout way of doing it. All right, so you have a a US base an American financial advisor with an American client base, uh, you know, retirees in Scottsdale, right? And if you think in terms of a just think of stock market in general, the United States is something like 60% of the global pie. And all the other countries combined in stocks, forget gold and bonds, everything. The other countries combined to be 40%. All right. So the extent that you allocate 60% US stocks and 40% overseas, you are going to be materially overweight overseas stocks compared to 95% of financial advisors, even though you are in line with something like the MSCI All Country World Index, which is the global basket. And so now you you subject yourself to career risk. Yeah, you're actually in line with logical portfolio construction, but you're out of line with that advisor who's in that office park across the street who's been talking to your clients and trying to poach them from you. And so this is one of those things that we have as a struggle with gold, right? We have gold products over at Wisdom Tree. A lot of our competitors do too. And forget 10, 12%, just go with a fiver to take you from zero to five. All right, cool. I mean, basically, I mean, how many studies have we seen through the years say let's let's throw five into gold? I mean, is it that's not too wild, it shouldn't move the portfolio too much. It's a diversifier. We've seen in the last 10 years or so a notably in non-existent correlation between gold and the SB 500 and also gold and aggregate bonds. So beautiful for portfolios. But to the extent that you have five, and then you have 95 and everything else, most people you're competing with have zero. And so you better get it right. This is this is one of those things we encounter all the time. The one that's second place in the convincing advisors to go at portfolio weights would be like emerging markets at uh stocks, right? So, how many advisors in this country and general retail investors have 10% in emerging markets? Not many. Um, but it just to be at the base case, let alone being overweight, having something like 20% in emerging. So these are the psychological obstacles that you encounter, and yeah, for a living, that's what I encounter.

SPEAKER_03 17:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's what you do with it. You know, when you're saying 5%, what is that actually replacing the portfolio? Are you taking that from equities? You take fixed income cash.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

Okay. All right. So that's that's an interesting one. It depends on what you're bullish or bearish on. Right. Um, if you think that we are going to have um the positive effects uh of the the rate cuts that commenced 19 months ago, I would theorize, and I have theorized, and I've got the charts out there on X, that you could see the rate of growth on S P 500 profits peak out in the out years of this decade, which is really, really bold to hypothesize because street consensus on SP 500 earnings growth for calendar 26 is 22%, Jeremy. So imagine continuing double-digit earnings growth. So you don't know whether or not you want to take it from stocks. The the area you might want to take it from is fixed income. And the the I I think, I mean, Jeremy, I think so. The key reason why fixed income is not the diversifier it once was in the proverbial 60-40, the 60% equity, 40% fixed income is the grueling experience of 22 when stocks and bonds went down together. Um, and gold was a quasi-diversifier that year, roughly flat in that year. And so that's why I think you got to take it from fixed income. But one of the things that we've done in the you know, the exchange traded products is create these mandates where you can have you put a dollar in the mandate and it has 90 cents of the dollar in stocks and then has the gold futures layered on top of it. So you have a buck 80 worth of exposure. And if you start thinking about that, then what you can essentially do is not get out of the 60-40 and end up with like slide to 5% into the combination of gold plus uh equities in it. You could be kind of like a 6045, and then you have 105% in your portfolio. So it's a know what you own situation, but it's really, really cool. Um, and it's part of our efficient capital concept. We've been rolling these things out for years.

SPEAKER_03 19:55

Let me let me just step back just for a moment because you know what you're really outlining is a market where traditional portfolio assumptions may not hold up the way that they used to, and it's refreshing to hear. I mean, we we need to factor in the crude markets. Brent's holding above 106, I think, uh, during these interruptions and disruptions in the in the Middle East. Oil's no longer just an energy story, it obviously feeds into that inflation expectation policy. But you've argued that this oil shock is not causing the demand destruction we saw in previous uh prior cycles. So, I mean, talk to me about that data.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Yeah, and that might be uh a different um assessment than a lot of your guests. Uh and it's you you have to think about it, it's it's a little counterintuitive. The fact that it's an oil shock that does not hit the consumer as as as roughly or as brutally as prior oil shocks, that is that is a very good thing for gold. You don't think it instinctually, but let me explain. Um all right, so it's 1979, and we're going to have uh that second oil shock. I mean, I take 1979 because the 73 oil embargo is before we had the the fuel economy data from the EPA, and we just use unleaded gasoline as a concept. Because look, it's whether or not you are showing up at the Kroger or the Publix or what have you and purchasing the box of Cheerios we're talking about, or whether you're contacting Elon and buying um that Tesla, or whether I'm just thinking about this laptop, whether or not I decide yes, I'm going to buy a laptop or no because of my household uh disposable income. And so if you go back to that 79, the 79 oil shock, in that situation, the fuel economy, we calculate the fuel economy back then of your typical vehicle on the road is six miles per gallon less than today's Chrysler Pacifica. Which, if everybody doesn't know, the Chrysler Pacifica is the big eight seater that you buy if you've got a caravan of kids to go. To soccer. So the cars we were driving back then were pieces of garbage. And so, and if you take it from this from that perspective and you look at the degree by which oil shocked, the number of miles you could drive, make it a function of the get the unleaded gasoline price, and then average hourly earnings, we have all this data. This pales in comparison to this shock. And even to put it in more recent terms, if we draw a line through the 2022 action, because it's you know it's a gasoline shock in recent memory, wages weren't so much different than today. Then go back to summer of 2008. And Jeremy, this is so critical here because when even people in the industry like me, we think summer of 2008, okay, well, that means we're like three months short of Lehman is going to go under. That means we're three months past Bear Stearns just based did go under, Wakovia, AIG, Subprime, all that stuff. But forgotten in the annals of history is that we had a gasoline crisis in this, not just this country. Across the world, this is when we had in East Asia, we had the rice riots, we had memory serves, I have to try to think what year it was, the Egyptian food riots as well, due to that commodity super cycle. Well, if you go back to summer of 2008, when we busted up through $4 a gallon, we have found that fuel economy for cars in the vintage 2020 2008 was 21 miles to the gallon. Today's late model cars are 28 miles to the gallon, so call it 33% more fuel economy there. But critically, what the heck does $4 a gallon even mean? It means what whether you have $4 in your pocket. And at the time, average hourly earnings in this country was $17. And now it's 32. So if you were to do fuel economy in concert with whatever the heck you're driving, with what you're earning, we calculated this a few months ago. We got to nine and a half dollars a gallon to make this as brutal as the 08 shock. And the wink wink is, of course, we're going to make believe Bear Sternstein just collapse, right? So that's that's part of it. But if you're so now you're saying, okay, oil shock, do I like gold, right? Isn't that really what we're asking here? Oil shock, do I like silver? Well, to the extent that demand destruction does not occur at $4 a gallon, or that demand destruction does not necessarily occur in petrochemicals or in bunker fuel, right? Because the stuff that's sitting here on this desk did come from China and that requires bunker fuel, all these hundred or thousand different items that are definitely affected by the Strait of Hormuz, maybe my demand curve does not get destroyed quite as much as I would imagine would be the case. I maintain my demand, or the middle class maintains its demand for a microphone or a coffee cup or these things I'm looking at on my desk. And as that occurs, okay, as that occurs, then that means, well, for one, I might have more money in my brokerage account to go buy some gold fund. That's one. That's the obvious one. Um, but critically, um, I could get um uh the system to continue with economic expansion, right? I mean, to the extent that it's an oil crisis that does not cause recession, now I have economic expansion. You take an industrial metal like silver, if we want to call that an industrial slash precious metal, and you want to you want to link in pure industrial metals like copper or zinc into this, of which you can bring other people on the phone here and they can talk about you know copper and and zinc supply-demand dynamics. I just think in terms of generalized economics. Maybe I continue to put my purchase order in for copper. Maybe I can maintain $75 or whatever it is right now on the silver price because we are in economic expansion. And to make the short story long on this one, Jeremy, that copper chart looks nice. It's six dollars again on copper. Call that 60 days ago. We we touched six, we retraced back to five and a quarter or five fifty or whatever it was, busting up through six dollars again on Dr. Copper. And this is where we define terms. I think, I think you know, we call it Dr. Copper because Dr. Copper has a prescription for the economy. You look at the at the chart of copper at any given time, and if it's going down, you say the economy's gonna weaken or hit a recession, and if it's going up, you have economic expansion. And anybody who wants to pull up a one-year chart on Dr. Copper right now, tell me this economy is going into recession. Doesn't look like it to me.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

Yeah.

unknown 26:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:44

Hey, let me ask you directly too. I mean, with gold and silver holding these these elevated floors, if a wealth manager finishes this interview and leaves their traditional portfolio completely unexposed to hard assets, I mean, what exact mistake are they making?

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Well, uh essentially, if you're thinking so they have zero in precious metals in that circumstance. Um, well, now they're they're they're essentially making a wager for perpetual dollar strength and or missing out the increasing on the increasing sophistication of the old pie chart. I mean, so think about in the span of my career, which is a couple of decades, um, what I've seen come into the fray and become mainstreamed. And sometimes these assets go up and sometimes they go down. But I remember early in my career during the commodity super cycle, in the private client uh framework, the high net worth, the ultra-high net worth over at the old Harris Private Bank, um, we started to see implementation portfolio-wise of MLPs, master limited partnerships of pipelines. Um, you know, even like Canadian royalty trusts, that type of thing. Um, certainly the rise of private equity and private credit, for better or worse, right? I mean, private credit is up against the wall right now, or some people think it is. Um you know, I've even seen like the advent at Treasury of the floating rate note, right? And so there's there's things that are happening inside fixed income that have changed. And I think that we had a period of time, uh, essentially from January of 80 until the turn of the century, where at the margin, all new money in the old pie chart started to leave precious metals because it was so grueling. I mean, Gordon Brown was liquidating the gold. Was 99? Yeah. You know, to make the to make the Gordon Brown reference, so that that's the old story of um the Bank of England legendarily sold, sold the bottom on gold. And I think that was, Jeremy, I think I was in high school, man. I think I was in high school when that happened. I think that was 1999. Um, and then of course, we've seen portfolio sophistication rise. I mean, you've seen the price, you've seen the private equity, private credit, you've seen changes in fixed income. And I think that there is now more of a role for metals in a portfolio. I thought maybe the 2022 action was going to awaken that. I thought maybe the bull runs of 23, 24, 25 would awaken that. But frankly, man, I'm telling you, there's a whole lot of people with still 0% and precious metals. It it's befuddling, yeah, but it's bullish. You want everybody to be in zero because that means you can't go lower than zero. Well, I guess I guess you could short them. I guess you could short them. But you actually, if you're bullish on metals, you want it to be at zero, because to the extent that some critical mass of investors comes from zero to five or zero to ten, yeah, that's new money coming in. So I it's bullish.

SPEAKER_03 29:51

It's bullish. I like it. Just put it five percent. I I I like that one. Well, yeah, I mean, who knows?

SPEAKER_00 29:57

I don't know the number. I don't know the number.

SPEAKER_03 29:58

No, but hey, makes sense. Um, all right, man. Jeff Winniger, head of equity strategy at Wisdom Tree. Uh, excellent institutional breakdown today. Uh, thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Thanks, Jeremy.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

Appreciate it. And for our viewers, if you want analysis granted in real market data, not just headlines, make sure you're subscribed right here to Kitco News. I'm Jeremy Saffron. We'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

Kitco News in Focus with Jeremy Saffron.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Kitco's new and improved award-winning gold life gives you access to the latest market price quotes, charts, precious metals news, and expert opinions in familiar but improved and exciting user experience. All the news and information you love in a better, faster, and more intuitive package of our existing app, used by millions of users with an average user rating of 4.5 stars, customizable widgets, and market alert features. Download the official Gold Live app and get all the latest updates so you're always on top of the latest precious metals, finance, stocks, and mining news. Download now on the App Store or get it on Google Play.